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LiveJohn
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GARABANDAL - 1961. Duration: 1min 38 seconds.More
GARABANDAL - 1961.
Duration: 1min 38 seconds.
LiveJohn
LiveJohn
Hey Folks! This post is not about scoring points or personal attacks. In fact, Garabandal is not even an article of faith to be accepted as compulsory by believers or none at all. The Holy Virgins Messages are intended to be the prime focus of our attention since they have ecclesiastical approval; particularly their relevance to the current crisis in the Church and the World. The Seper document as …More
Hey Folks! This post is not about scoring points or personal attacks. In fact, Garabandal is not even an article of faith to be accepted as compulsory by believers or none at all. The Holy Virgins Messages are intended to be the prime focus of our attention since they have ecclesiastical approval; particularly their relevance to the current crisis in the Church and the World. The Seper document as presented by another commentator is of historical interest but not ex cathedra. The video provides a window into the sincerity/credibility of the visionaries as a counter to negative or unfounded opinions. Intending contributors seeking to 'Let's buy an Argument' should look elsewhere or remove their offensive comments - forthwith!
Carol H
The 1967 statement: The Catholic Transcript 23 May 1969 — The Catholic News Archive
SACRA CONGREGATIO PRO DOCTRINA FIDEI (Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith)
Protocol No: 1065/64 Roma, 21 April 1970.
Piazza del S. Uffizio, 11.
Your Excellency:
This office has received your letter of April 8, 1970, in which you expressed justifiable apprehension about the diffusion of the Garabandal …More
The 1967 statement: The Catholic Transcript 23 May 1969 — The Catholic News Archive

SACRA CONGREGATIO PRO DOCTRINA FIDEI (Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith)
Protocol No: 1065/64 Roma, 21 April 1970.
Piazza del S. Uffizio, 11.

Your Excellency:

This office has received your letter of April 8, 1970, in which you expressed justifiable apprehension about the diffusion of the Garabandal movement in your Archdiocese and in which you asked for clear and reliable guidelines from the Holy See for dealing with this phenomenon.

The Holy See shares your preoccupation about the manifest and increasing confusion due to the diffusion of this movement among the faithful and desires with this letter to clarify its position on the matter.
This Sacred Congregation, despite requests from various bishops and faithful, has always refused to define the supernatural character of the events of Garabandal.

After the definitive negative judgement issued by the Curia of Santander, this Sacred Congregation, after attentive examination of the proceedings forwarded to this office, has often praised the prudence that characterized the method followed in the examination, but has still decided to leave the direct responsibility for the matter to the local Ordinary.

The Holy See has always held that the conclusions and dispositions of the Bishop of Santander were sufficiently secure guidelines for the bishops, in order to dissuade people from participating in pilgrimages and other acts of devotion that are based on claims connected with or founded on the presumed apparitions and messages of Garabandal. On March 10, 1969, this Sacred Congregation wrote a letter to this effect to the bishop of Santander who had also asked for a more explicit declaration of the Holy See in the matter.

However, promoters of the Garabandal movement have tried to minimize the decisions and the jurisdiction of the Bishop of Santander. This Sacred Congregation wants it to be clearly understood that the Bishop of Santander has been and continues to be the only one with complete jurisdiction in this matter and the Holy See has no intention of examining this question any further since it holds that the examinations already carried out are sufficient, as well as are the official declarations of the Bishop of Santander.

There is no truth to the statement that the Holy See has named an «Official Papal Private Investigator of Garabandal» and affirmations attributed to this anonymous personage to the extent that «the verification of the Garabandal apparitions lies completely in the hands of the Holy Father Pope Paul VI» and other such expressions that aim at undermining the authority of the decisions of the Bishop of Santander are completely unfounded.

In order to reply to certain doubts that you expressed in your letter, this Sacred Congregation wishes to assert that the Holy See has never approved, even indirectly, the Garabandal movement, that it has never encouraged or blessed Garabandal promoters or centers. Rather, the Holy See deplores the fact that certain persons and institutions persist in fomenting the movement in obvious contradiction with the dispositions of ecclesiastical authority, and thus disseminate confusion among the people, especially among the simple and defenseless.

From what has been said so far, you will easily realize that, though this Sacred Congregation certainly agrees with the contents of the note of May 10, 1969 (as published in various countries and especially in the French magazine, La Documentation Catholique, Sep. 21, 1969; n. 1.547, p. 821), it must say that it is inexact to attribute the part of the text that deals with the lack of supernatural character of the events of Garabandal to the Sacred Congregation, which has always striven to abstain from any direct declaration on the question, precisely because it did not consider it necessary to do so after the clear and express decisions of the Bishop of Santander. This is the genuine meaning of the letter written on January 21, 1970, by the Most Reverend Paul Philippe, Secretary of this Sacred Congregation, to the editor in chief of La Documentation Catholique.

In order to contribute further to your pastoral action in this matter, this office is enclosing other essential documents already published in other countries such as Spain, i. e. the two official notices of the Bishop of Santander, two letters of the Sacred Congregation to the same Bishop, and a letter to the Apostolic Delegate to Mexico.

This office hopes in this letter to have clarified a question that concerns not just your Archdiocese but also other dioceses.
With sentiments of deepest esteem and cordial respect, I am
Devotedly yours,

FRANC, Cardinal Seper. Praef.
frawley
Second paragraph- This office has “always refused to define the supernatural character of the the events of Garabandal”. The local bishop did not like it -I get that. Rome did not want to get involved - I get that too. Not the same as condemnation. You will find the “experts” that the Bishop chose to do his investigation and how they conducted that investigation very eye opening.
LiveJohn
There is absolutely nothing in the events of Garabandal that make it controversial unless one intends to make it so. The reason underpinning the Holy Virgins visitations to that mountain village were to deliver important messages for the world. Those messages were given full ecclesiastical approval by Bishop Aldazabal and deemed to be consistent with traditional church teaching. The supernatural …More
There is absolutely nothing in the events of Garabandal that make it controversial unless one intends to make it so. The reason underpinning the Holy Virgins visitations to that mountain village were to deliver important messages for the world. Those messages were given full ecclesiastical approval by Bishop Aldazabal and deemed to be consistent with traditional church teaching. The supernatural manifestations accompanying the ecstasies were for some witnesses, of a controversial nature resulting in many doubting their reality thereby creating doubts which persist to this day. Although the events of themselves appear credible the church determined them insufficient to issue any final judgement until the supernatural aspect of what took place is demonstrated by the fulfillment of the major prophecies. Meantime, the official Church position is one of non-constat meaning ‘ uncertain’ (in need of more proof) pending further evidence to support the supernatural character of the apparitions. The non-constat classification is consistent with the statements issued by the local bishops since the apparitions began. Eminent Spanish Psychologist Dr Louis Morales who headed the first Commission which incidentally, brought down a negative judgement on the events was later to publicly declare that he had made a mistake and after consultation with his bishop went on to declare he had irrefutable proof of the supernatural character of what took place in that humble mountain village.
Carol H
Curious - what is this alleged irrefutable proof of the supernatural in Garabandal that even the Vatican and Ordinary of the district cannot see?
Credo .
@ Just me. What on earth has the sweetness of a face have to do with anything?
I have 21 grandchildren; they all had sweet faces and not one of them has had an apparition. I would add with respect to the same apparition; you discount the findings of the Church based on what research? 🤔
Carol H
The Church does not believe the children of Garabandal saw Our Lady, but it is possible they saw something - or thought they did. Fatima was the main apparition followed by the faithful at that time and it is interesting that the message of Garabandal is quite similar: the power of auto suggestion. As for Mejuforgery - those children were clearly making it up; one just has to research Mejugorje's …More
The Church does not believe the children of Garabandal saw Our Lady, but it is possible they saw something - or thought they did. Fatima was the main apparition followed by the faithful at that time and it is interesting that the message of Garabandal is quite similar: the power of auto suggestion. As for Mejuforgery - those children were clearly making it up; one just has to research Mejugorje's earliest history to see that what started out as a joke was hijacked by the rebellious Fransicans in defiance to their bishop.
frawley
@Credo . Please help us all out here and post a copy of the Official Vatican Document from the CDF condeming Garabandal or Medjugorje. If you are unable, how about waiting for the Church's final determination before taking it upon yourself to be the final authority.
Credo .
@ Frawley. Suggest you do your own research. (End of discussion).
frawley
@credo As I suspected, you make wild irresponsible statements that you cannot back up and then hide behind the childish "I am not going to talk to you anymore"
Carol H
Stated Bishop of Santander, Jose Vilplana: "On Nov. 28, 1992, the Congregation sent me an answer saying that after examining the documentation, there was no need for direct intervention (by the Vatican) to take away the jurisdiction of the ordinary bishop of Santander in this case. Such a right belongs to the ordinary." Well dear Frawley, the local ordinary judged (and maintains that same judgement …More
Stated Bishop of Santander, Jose Vilplana: "On Nov. 28, 1992, the Congregation sent me an answer saying that after examining the documentation, there was no need for direct intervention (by the Vatican) to take away the jurisdiction of the ordinary bishop of Santander in this case. Such a right belongs to the ordinary." Well dear Frawley, the local ordinary judged (and maintains that same judgement to date) AGAINST any supernatural happenings at Garabandal.
Credo .
@ Just me. 'Garabandal' Even the findings of the Church? 😉
(Just curious!)
Carol H
The Church - both the Vatican and the local ordinary - have made it clear they do not believe anything supernatural took place at Garabandal. Moreover NONE of the alleged prophecies have come true, the girls have been caught lying, Conchita married a divorced man and got involved in a self-marketing tour with other self proclaimed seers who have since been condemned by the Church (Julia Kim comes …More
The Church - both the Vatican and the local ordinary - have made it clear they do not believe anything supernatural took place at Garabandal. Moreover NONE of the alleged prophecies have come true, the girls have been caught lying, Conchita married a divorced man and got involved in a self-marketing tour with other self proclaimed seers who have since been condemned by the Church (Julia Kim comes to mind). The first "apparition" took place while the girls were stealing apples, and some of their future behavior such as Jacinta's childish tantrums were a far cry from the mature and quiet dignity of Lucia, Francisco and Jacinta of Fatima.
LiveJohn
@Carol H Absolute nonsense. Remove the blinkers from your eyes.
Carol H
There is a historical paper trail for every point I have made. In the 90's I worked as an investigative jounalist and was witness to the promotional material for the gathering of the "seers" Conchita is pictured with the false Irish "seer" Christine Gallagher, Julia Kim etc; I have the early promotional material for Garabandal which record Jacinta's tantrums and the stealing of apples; I have seen …More
There is a historical paper trail for every point I have made. In the 90's I worked as an investigative jounalist and was witness to the promotional material for the gathering of the "seers" Conchita is pictured with the false Irish "seer" Christine Gallagher, Julia Kim etc; I have the early promotional material for Garabandal which record Jacinta's tantrums and the stealing of apples; I have seen the recording of Mari Cruz where she denies seeing our Lady; and it is common knowledge that none of the prophecies have come to pass - 60 years on. Her husband Patrick Keena was previosly married before Conchita and had children from his former wife. When I was growing up I recall seeing a documentary about it. There is enough within these few points to raise legitmate doubt in Garabandal. If you couple this with the official documents issued by the sucession of the Local Ordinary (and backed by the Vatican), then one must put on blinkers to say that Garabandal is definitely true.
LiveJohn
@Carol H OFF TOPIC and irrelevant. If you disagree with someone else's point of view, then hit the red icon. Non-Constat is a precise legal term meaning 'Uncertain' and not your negative interpretation of it. Character Assassination (Detraction) is not good journalism.
Carol H
But you do not treat Garabandal as "uncertain". You treat it as a promotional certain. Anf given the Church's guide-lines and example in the matter, this smacks of disobedience. As for 'character assasination' - if a person puts themselves forward as a seer of heavenly visions, then their actions are open for critical anaysis. It is odd that two of them had doubted/denied seeing any visions (Conchita …More
But you do not treat Garabandal as "uncertain". You treat it as a promotional certain. Anf given the Church's guide-lines and example in the matter, this smacks of disobedience. As for 'character assasination' - if a person puts themselves forward as a seer of heavenly visions, then their actions are open for critical anaysis. It is odd that two of them had doubted/denied seeing any visions (Conchita/Mari Cruz). The tantums of Jacinta when her parents wouldn't ket her go with the other girls to "meet" Our Lady is odd. The fact that non of the prophecies have materialized is odd (its been 60 years on!). That Conchita married a man who had already been married is odd. Meeting up with other false seers is odd.
LiveJohn
Opinion noted.
Cheers and have a good day.